Speaker 2 0:00

The Kill City podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of the lands we're on. Here in Melbourne, that's the Wurundjeri Woi Worong people of the Kulin Nation. We honour their deep connection to storytelling, a tradition carried across more than 2,000 generations. Pay our respects to elders past, present, and emerging, and we extend that acknowledgement to First Nations people listening today. Welcome back to the Kill City Podcast, where Australian Crime and Mystery Writing is our MO. And today, as we celebrate Children's Book Week, which runs between the 22nd and the 28th of August, we're looking at some of the new, recent and old children's and young adult books and writers that have helped shape the genre. Good to see you, Leigh. How are you going?

Speaker 0:48

I am well, thanks, and yeah, really keen to look at some of these titles for younger readers, which is something that we've been talking about for a while now offline. But um but what better time than now ahead of Children's Book Week?

Speaker 2 1:00

Absolutely, I think the timing's perfect. Now, Children's Book Week is always a busy one, and August brings the big moment. It's the Children's Book Council of Australia's Book of the Year awards. And yes, Kill City is unapologetically crime obsessed, but we think it's still important to cheer on the Australian authors of getting kids hooked on books in the first place. And because we think they're building the next generation of readers and hopefully a few future crime author tragics. And honestly, Book Week in my house used to be one of my favourite times. My kids used to get so excited about finding a story that they love so much they wanted to be the main character. Now, slightly less magical for me though was sitting up till midnight hand sewing costumes like a deranged stage mum. Oh my god, I still have PSTD, bloody Tashy with the pointy elf boots and hat. That was that was many long hours.

Speaker 1:55

You have given me, you've triggered me my uh our oldest went at one point uh as the character from Aaron Blabey's The Dreadful Fluff, which was the one where she looked like she'd just sort of been shot out of a cannon. And I remember building anyone that hasn't read it, she's goes around getting this fluff with this vacuum cleaner. It's quite a funny book, but um building all sorts of contraptions for her to take as um What was the character's name? It's um Penelope something. Anyway, but um I could not agree more. My wife and I, I mean, we've always been big on encouraging the kids to be proper readers and writers, and now that they're getting older, um, I'm definitely sliding into that phase where you know you start sort of living vicariously through your children's achievements. Um it's ridiculous how much joy I get from seeing them lost in a book and just being creative in general.

Speaker 2 2:42

So yeah, but is that an actual recognised stage of life?

Speaker 2:46

Oh, the vicarious living through your children face. Surely it is, surely.

Speaker 2 2:51

I'm not convinced, but anyway, I reckon we should move on. Um, so we're gonna leave a link to the Children Book Council of Australia's website in the show notes, and you'll be able to find a bunch of information in there that relates to all the events and activities set for Book Week this year.

Speaker 3:07

Now, the theme for this year is Symphony of Stories, and there are a load of resources, as you would expect, as well as information on all the books in the running for the Book of the Year awards.

Speaker 2 3:17

Yeah, and given that we're all about mystery and crime on Kill City, we're actually delighted to see that some of the books nominated in the children's and young author categories from the Sisters in Crime David Awards are also on the short list for these prestigious awards as well.

Speaker 3:31

Yeah, it's fantastic and love seeing books from our favourite genre getting the love they deserve too.

Speaker 2 3:37

Yeah, it is.

Speaker 3:39

Um now we're getting to the pointy end of the year where we are actually waiting on several announcements from a crime writing perspective. So both the Ned Kelly Awards and the David Awards next month, as is the Allen and Unwin Crime Fiction Award, which is also set to be announced. So um there's a lot going on at the moment and a lot of big news to come in the crime writing space.

Speaker 2 3:58

Mmm, there is, it's really exciting. Okay, well, now let's have a look at the 2026 Book of the Year shortlist. Now, in the Young Readers category, which is aimed at ages roughly, I think, between seven and twelve, there's Run by Sarah Armstrong. Now, the pricey for this is pretty cool. The main character Cass runs away thinking that he's going to dodge his problems, only to end up lost in the bush and mixed up with a family who are hiding from something that they won't even name. And now this book's been everywhere. It's been on the CBCA shortlist, the David's shortlist, the kids' choice shortlist, and even an ABIA long list. So I think it's really landed well with kind of judges and readers. Now, in the older reader category, which covers ages 13 to 18, your typical high school crowd, we've got We Saw What You Started by Carla Salmon, and she's also up for David, so she's clearly having a big year. Now, this book's got a really great setup too. There's three fires, there's one kid that everyone's pointing the finger at, and it's a small coastal town where rumours travel faster than the surf. Now, Osho is trying to start afresh, but Millie's not convinced that all the gossip adds up, and then the whole thing becomes a question of who's actually telling the truth. So that sounds pretty cool too. And then another standout in the older readers category is This Stays Between Us by Margot McGovern. Now, this is really her love letter to 90s horror, and it's a really cool premise. There's four girls in a cabin, a creepy local ghost story, and a seance that definitely should have stayed as a joke. Now, Shelley's the new girl with her own baggage, Max dealing with the friendship fallout, Priya's navigating boyfriend territory, and Rafi's just stirring the pot. And now this one's um actually won the Victorian Premier's Literary John Marsden Award for young adults.

Speaker 5:52

Um since you brought up John Marsden, um it's reminded me of how many young adult books brush up against crime and mystery, even if they're not technically in the genre. Um, and really there's there's one series that sits in a league of its own, and it is Marsden's Tomorrow When the War Began series. Not crime fiction, but it's absolutely one of the great Australian thrillers.

Speaker 2 6:14

Oh, look, I'm so excited that you brought up John Marsden, and he's kind of one of my literary heroes, and I think that um Tomorrow When the War Began might actually be Australia's most influential crime-adjacent novel that nobody really calls a crime novel.

Speaker 6:28

Yeah, 100%. And for so many Aussies who grew up in the 90s and 2000s, that series wasn't just a you know a young adult hit. It was their first real taste of suspense, of moral gray zones and characters forced to make impossible decisions. Um, it's basically a crash course in tension and ethics.

Speaker 2 6:48

Oh my goodness, absolutely. And look, I am a big believer in yeah, just do yourself a favor and read it. Um, but for anyone who hasn't actually discovered the series, um, the premise is really simple. There's a group of teenagers that go camping, they come home and they discover that Australia's been invaded and their families are all gone. And so everything they know about normal life has collapsed. It's so iconic, but um, yeah, now, but you know, back in 1993 it was just really shocking.

Speaker 7:16

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you know, he never over-explains anything, John Marzen. Like he's not um he's not interested in the geopolitics, he's interested in the consequences. Um, the mystery is never who invaded, it's you know, who do you become when the rules disappear?

Speaker 2 7:33

Yeah, and that's why I think we're able to draw the bow to this being crime adjacent, because that's actually a crime fiction question. And as we know, crime fiction usually starts with sort of a broken rule. So there's a murder, there's a theft, there's a lie, and then somebody tries to restore order or get justice. So Marsden kind of just removes that safety net in his novels because there's no detectives, no courts, we don't even have any adults, and then justice becomes something that the teenagers have to invent on the fly. And Leigh, you know, I always love a film tie-in, and I think it's worth mentioning that tomorrow, when the war began, actually had a really good um Australian film adaptation. So it came out in around I think 2010. It was directed by Stuart Beattie, so he's the Australian filmmaker from Sydney, and people might know him from um his screenplays that he's done, um, fantastic international films like Collateral and Pirates of the Caribbean. Um, so seeing him direct sort of a homegrown story like this was such a good moment. And if anyone wants to check it out, I think it's streaming on Stan, and then I think you can also rent it on Apple TV.

Speaker 8:42

Oh, thanks, Margaret. Back to the book series. Um, that's exactly why I think it hits still hits us so hard. I mean, John Marsden really trusted young readers with complexity, he didn't soften anything, you know, grief, fear, sort of the moral weight. He um he genuinely let teenagers sit with it.

Speaker 2 9:03

Oh yeah, and look, more than 30 years later, the books still find new readers. And I don't think it's because anyone wants to imagine an invasion, but I think Marsden really understood something timeless. Like, I don't know, growing up really is an investigation. So you've got to think about who you can trust, what kind of person you are, what do you stand for when things get hard.

Speaker 9:24

And I I mean that's why adults keep returning to it. I mean, what felt like pure adventure at 14 reads, very different at 40. Um, you notice the trauma, the cost, the scars. Marsden never glorified the violence, he just you know refused to pretend it didn't change people.

Speaker 2 9:43

Yeah, so if we define crime fiction narrowly, like if you're thinking about, you know, police procedural detective solving offences, then no, tomorrow when the war began isn't crime. But if we do define it more broadly, so we are talking about stories about justice and morality and um maybe the collapse or rebuilding of a social order, then I think that Marsdenton really does belong in the conversation. So I think we're gonna stick with the tag of it being crime adjacent because it deals with the same questions but sort of a different context and setting.

Speaker 10:14

Yeah, absolutely. It's funny, we had um we've got some some of my wife's family over from um Canada and my wife's cousin's daughter, who's about 13, avid reader. Um, my wife gave her a copy of Tomorrow When the War Began um for her to take back to Canada and read. So um it's yeah, it's still just such an important book in the in the broader landscape of Australian writing. The fact that we can sort of lean in and lean into it a little bit um and as a crime adjacent book is is is fun too. So um sadly, John Marsden passed away in 2024, but you know, like he the influence is everywhere, so in Australian thrillers, in young adult fiction, and in the way uh writers treat young readers as capable of handling these sort of real ethical stakes. Um he was just a remarkable writer and educator, and we've talked about author legacies on this show quite a bit, but his really is one of the big ones. Um, books, literature, education, he just he just left his mark on it sort of everywhere.

Speaker 2 11:21

Oh goodness, he definitely did.

Speaker 11:23

Um and my wife, who is a prolific reader, would probably say that she that he's still her this is still her favourite series ever. Um I'll pretend I'm gonna go and factor that, but I know that um I don't really need to. But um, she did I have actually taught her about this um um in a couple of books we probably haven't mentioned outside of the Tomorrow series was Checkers and Letters from the Inside. And um I haven't read either of those, um, but she has reliably informed me that they are well and truly sort of crime adjacent and um would be worth a conversation and obviously a read as well.

Speaker 2 11:59

Oh, actually, um no, I'm with Amy on this one 100%. I absolutely adored this series, and you know me, I love a series when I know the seats of books, and there were seven, so it was fantastic, but I didn't know about his other two books. So two more to add to my TBR. Now, if this chat has jogged any of your memories of reading Tomorrow When the War Began, if you're under the covers with a torch or if it made you want to pick it up again, we'd love to know. We love hearing um people's Marsden and stories, so feel free to um send us some fan mail or an email.

Speaker 12:32

Now, we um wanted to call out another of the Davitt nominees for 2026, and that's Gisela Irvin Ward's book True South. Um, when 12-year-old Nell crashes her sailboat into a submerged house in the lake, she stumbles into a treasure hunt that plunges her into generations old family feud. Things begin to take a sinister turn as the adults get involved, it's always the way, and Nell has no choice but to team up with her neighbourhood and family rival Charlie. Um, as friendships begin to morph and stretch, can these two unlikely allies end the feud and work out the treasure's secrets, or will their rivalry um lead to one last epic betrayal? My copy of this has just arrived, um, along with a bunch of other books I can't wait to get into. And uh I can't wait to start reading this one to my twin eight-year-old. So we're hoping to have um Gisela on the show at some point too. So exciting.

Speaker 1 13:23

Oh, yeah, no, that would be excellent. And um true South does sound fabulous.

Speaker 13:28

Yeah, it does. Now, I'm gonna take uh a bit of a left field turn here and talk about someone who I think is arguably the biggest gangster in Australian fiction, young or adult. He's a thief, a liar, a bit of a larrican, as well as a bit of a master of disguise, and his crimes against culture even put him on the world stage. Helen, do you know who I am talking about?

Speaker 2 13:53

Uh nah, I haven't got the full guest.

Speaker 13:55

Right. Well, this character just finds trouble everywhere, and I am talking about everyone's favourite or least favourite canine, Pig the Pug.

Speaker 2 14:05

Oh dear Leigh, you are drawing such a long bow with this one.

Speaker 14:10

Hear me out. Now, this is a character who, if he was human, would definitely be locked up. And you know, on fictional form, he'd probably be like running the running the show in the exercise yard at Barwen Prison or at Long Bay Jail, or if he was a Queenslander, Bogo Road jail, that um people who've read Boys Follows Universe will recall. He just unashamedly does not care who he offends or what trouble he causes on his way to getting whatever he wants. And in the season finale, just spoiler alert, um, he even breaks out of a high security dog training center in scenes in scenes reminiscent of the great escape. Now, obviously, I'm being a little bit facetious with pig the pug picture books, but there is such a wonderful sense of chaos and there is a great sense of cause and effect storytelling going on as well. But um uh they just and they quietly reinforce ideas about kindness, identity, and personal growth. But um, so much fun, and written by the fantastic Aaron Blabey, who's also written other kids and young reader books um and series that dabble into the sort of crime space, um, including The Bad Guys, which has obviously become a feature film. So there's like 20 books in that series. So he's incredibly prolific, Aaron Blabey, who um, as some may know, had quite a well-known career as an actor um previously with roles in essentially every Australian TV series of the 90s and and early 2000s, um, as well as films, including doing Erskineville Kings in 1999 with your favourite leading man, Helen, Hugh Jackman. And but if you've got young children and you've not read them, um his books are a load of fun. Um, and if you just want to laugh and you've got youngsters, I I recommend busting piranhas, don't eat bananas and don't call me bear, which is just very clever. I mean, they're all very clever, but um, and they're very funny too. Um, I'm still amused by the despite the fact that I have read them all hundreds and hundreds of times.

Speaker 2 16:09

Well, as they say, that's the um that's the hallmark of a um a great kids book, if you don't mind reading it hundreds of times, which is yes, we've we've all done our time. And I do love that you got me across the line with Pig the Pug by just doing a huge Ackman mention. That was super cleverly. You're quite smart at that. All right, but you've you've um thrown down the gauntlet because now I had to think about um if we're really gonna throw sort of quirky entries into this um kids' picture book crime pile, I actually have an alternative for what I think is better. And I think my contender is the absolutely brilliant The 11th Hour by Graham Bass. Now, this book came out in 1988, and I actually think it's one of the best mystery picture books ever written globally. So, for people who don't know, the whole thing is a puzzle. There's a birthday feast that's been ruined, there's clues hidden in every illustration, there's secret codes, there's riddles, there's patterns, there's tiny details that you only stop on the tenth read, features a really cool cast of characters, which are all animals. Um, look, it won a children's book Council of Australia award, which I think was really well deserved. Um, because I think that um Graham Bass, what he did was it wasn't just a picture book, he actually did a full-blown Who Done It for Kids. And I don't know about you, Leigh, if that was in your house. Um, but my two kids spent hours pouring over those pages, like trying to unravel the mystery and find those hidden details. Um, look, it was really like landing them their first cold case, um, just it had rhinos and elephants instead of detectives. So I just thought it was a clever, gorgeous book, and I think it earns its place in the crime-adjacent Hall of Fame.

Speaker 17:53

Fair enough. I actually I haven't um read that one, I'm not familiar with it at all, so I will um be on the lookout for that one.

Speaker 2 18:00

Oh, he's got a whole series of gorgeous picture books, but uh that was the one that really kind of got the mystery, mystery um tag, I reckon. Okay, but I reckon we should move on. So I think we obviously can't get through every brilliant Aussie kids through up crime writer, because as we're discovering, there are a lot um and even more sort of every day, particularly as we hear about um the ones that are nominated for all the different awards. But we do want to give a shout out to Amy Doak, and she's made a huge impact in no time at all with her Eleanor Jones series. Now, these are straight-up young adult mysteries, they're kind of aimed at teens around 13 and up, and they've just landed really well with readers. And the first one, Eleanor Jones is not a murderer. Now that just came out swinging because it won the best young adult novel at the 2024 Dabbitt Awards. It was a CBCA Notable, and it even made the IBIA shortlist for older readers. Now the setup for this one's just a beauty. Eleanor's on her ninth high school in under five years. She's trying to keep her head down, but then the first kid she talks to gets stabbed on the same day with her message sitting on his phone. So she starts digging, then she falls in with a really odd little crew of students, but together they discover um Angus's secrets, and there's a danger sitting right in the middle of town. So it sounds very intriguing. And then Amy's kept things rolling with Eleanor Jones Can't Keep a Secret. Then there's Eleanor Jones is playing with fire, and then the next one, Eleanor Jones is not drowning. So there's a great series for kids to get stuck into, and they're all really sharp, pacey YA mysteries for that crowd. Then there's her standalone, What Have They Done to Liza McLean? Now, this one's also up for the Davits. So Meg McLean's trying to work out why her younger sister suddenly isn't herself, and she teams up with a fellow called Benedict Harvgraves IV, who may or may not be part of the mysterious they that's running the school. And then when bodies start turning up, Meg has to decide who she can really trust.

Speaker 20:05

Now, in exciting news, we've actually got Amy joining us on the show over the coming weeks, so be on the lookout for that. I'm really looking forward to chatting with her about um and finding out how she goes about creating crime tales that engage young readers.

Speaker 2 20:17

Yeah, me too. I can't wait.

Speaker 20:21

We want to give a bit of a call out to another Australian young adult crime writer, Kate Emery. Now she kicked things off in 2025 with her debut young adult novel, My Family and Other Suspects. The setup for this is great. There's a big messy family, a murder in the farmhouse, everyone's a suspect, and Ruth is trying to solve it while basically chatting straight to the reader. It's a funny, cluey, very much in that everyone stuck together with Secrets Lane. And it wasn't just readers who loved it, it won the John Marsden and Book of the Year for Older Children at the ABIAs and the Indie Book Award for Young Adult Fiction. So it really put her on the map. Then she's followed that up uh earlier this year with A Murder Is Going Down, which has a slightly different flavour. It's still crime, still funny, but it leans more into a sort of teen mystery with a bit more bite. Heidi comes home early from a disastrous exchange in Switzerland to find out her brother Felix has died, and she ends up teaming up with Patrick Felix's widow's younger brother to figure out what actually happened. They've got no real detective skills, just a lot of free time and a habit of poking at things that they probably shouldn't. And the deeper they dig, the messier Felix's life starts to look.

Speaker 2 21:29

I love it. Cozy crime for young readers.

Speaker 21:32

And finally, we talked about Troy Hunter last month on one of our episodes around uh LGBTQI plus um authors and books uh during our Pride Month episode. Um and excited to say that we've got Troy on the show um next month as well. So uh lots of excellent things coming up. Um so look back for that.

Speaker 2 21:53

I know, it's great.

Speaker 21:55

Well, that's us done for another week. We're gonna put the bookmark back in the book. We're gonna hit pause on the audio book or just be switching off the Kindle. Um, but be sure to tune in next week when we speak to Sarah Bailey, an Australian crime writer that needs no introduction, author of six books, four of which feature Detective Gemma Woodstock, and then two books where journalist Ollie Groves takes centre stage. This is a conversation you won't want to miss. So see you then.

Speaker 2 22:20

See you later.