Helen 0:00

The Kill City Podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of the lands we're on. Here in Melbourne, that's the Wurrundjeri Woi Worong people of the Kulin Nation. We honour their deep connection to storytelling, a tradition carried across more than 2,000 generations. Pay our respects to elders past, present, and emerging, and we extend that acknowledgement to First Nations people listening today. I'm Helen, and I'm joined by my co-host Leigh to talk all things Australian crime. Now today we're celebrating the life and legacy of the late Peter Temple, author of the famous Jack Irish series and nine novels in total. He's a writer who genuinely reshaped Australian crime fiction. Now, before I ask Leigh to talk about Temple and his novels, it's worth saying up front that he's one of the most decorated crime writers in Australia, collecting multiple local and international awards during his career. How are you feeling about this topic, Leigh?

Leigh 1:26

Well, it's great to be back. And as you can imagine, I'm really looking forward to talking about one of not only my favourite crime writers, but one of my favourite writers, Full Stop.

Helen 1:36

I know you know Temple's work inside out. How did you first discover him and kind of what grabbed you initially?

Leigh 1:44

Well, I suspect it was pretty soon after Bad Debts first came out in 1997. Um and I had this appetite to find all the Australian crime stories I could, which I know we talked about previously, but especially one set in contemporary places that I recognized and I ticked all those boxes, and I've actually still got the copy that I bought in 1997, the price tag, and all that's fantastic.

Helen 2:12

What did a book actually cost in 1997?

Leigh 2:15

Well, this one was $12.95 from Dymocks, and I think my guess is it was Dymocks at Southland in suburban Melbourne.

Helen 2:26

I love it. How about those prices? Oh, that'd be great.

Leigh 2:30

Yeah, it's funny what you remember about you know, as far as arbitrary details go. Um I was working in a video shop in suburban Melbourne, and I I must have been I think I used to go shopping beforehand. I remember buying I remember buying it and um and going to work and then cheekily sort of starting to read it behind the counter, which uh reflected my work ethic of the time. Um but I was really immediately taken with it, so I couldn't put it down. And he had this style that you know that really suited the genre. And at the time I'd been reading a lot of James Elroy, and it was kind of I mean, I'm not always super analytical with you know the way I look at writing, but um I I remember them both having this really similar punchy kind of rhythm that was um was quite new to me at the time.

Helen 3:18

So yeah, no, that's fascinating. And I'm not sure whether I'm just more excited about the fact that you used to work in a video store, because you know, remember when they existed, or um just the a joy of discovering a new author and um going with them on the journey. Um, but also like Chris Hammer, who we talked about briefly in a previous episode, um, I know Temple was also a journalist before he turned to fiction, and I think he didn't do it till he was around 50. So his first novel, I think Bad Dets, came out in around 1996, is that right?

Leigh 3:52

First published uh in Australia in 1996, this edition published in 1997. Yes, but he was certainly um plus fifty when he released Bad Debts. Um born and raised in South Africa and then emigrated to Australia in the 1980s. So he's you know, essentially he had two careers, didn't he? He's been a a successful journalist in in various countries around the world, um, and then just turns a page in his early 50s and writes nine novels, pretty much all of which um were incredibly successful and were the winners of various and prestigious awards both here and abroad. So um just a fantastic career.

Helen 4:42

No, that's great. It looks like um, yeah, that career change really paid off.

Leigh 4:46

Yeah, no, there's that was certainly you know, he was incredibly successful, and when you look at the awards, he won or was shortlisted for multiple Ned Kelly Awards, the Gold Dagger, and of course the Miles Franklin for Truth, um, which was the first crime novel ever to win it.

Helen 5:00

Such a great achievement. So, what is it about it that you enjoy most about his books and his writing?

Leigh 5:09

For me, it's a combination of things. Um I really love the tightness in his prose and the and the sharpness of his characters. There's a real sense of place, um, which obviously is something that's really important to me, and his characters in that crime setting are all they always feel completely believable. Obviously, already I've talked quite a lot about um how much I value books and stories set around Melbourne or Greater Victoria, Australia. That sense of place is really important to me as a reader. And beyond that, I mean, they're just cracking crime tales. The storylines are gripping, they're clever, um, they're always turning, they're always surprising.

Helen 5:53

I think um the way he writes is just one of the the best things about him. So it does sound like you consider him to be sort of one of your favourite writers, just not in crime fiction, but more broadly.

Leigh 6:06

Absolutely. I I and I really value the contribution he made to not only the sort of the crime writing genre, but Australian writing in general.

Helen 6:14

Now, to coincide with the release of this episode, I know you're gonna read the first chapter of Bad Debts and we'll talk about that a bit more, his first novel. Um, so you will find that alongside this episode of Now, continuing on, if you're only gonna take three of his books to read on a desert island, what three are you gonna take and why?

Leigh 6:36

Well, I feel like that's a bit mean asking me to choose, to be honest. But if forced, um taking bad debts um just as being the book that introduced um me to him. The Broken Shore, definitely. Um, and I know it's probably cheating a little bit, but I would take The Red Hand, which is the collection of short stories and essays, and the hundred or a hundred and ten pages of the unfinished Jack Irish novel that he was working on at the time of his death, um, which was titled High Art. And it also includes the screenplay for Valentine's Day, which aired on the ABC, um starring Rhys Muldoon, who um who played the Pringle in Black Tide, um, which was probably his only for a broadly speaking out of the crime genre. Um, so there's that as well. So I think I'd take that, just that would just give me a um a a wide range of Peter Temple reading to do. So yeah.

Helen 7:35

Ooh, Valentine's Day. I don't know anything about that. Can you tell me more about it and why it's so different from crime?

Leigh 7:42

Well, it's described as um a sort of comedy film. So you made but with the backing of the ABC. Um uh in it was and it was screened in 2008. Uh Rhys Muldern plays Ben Valentine, um uh who visits the small Victorian country town of Rushworth and is mistaken for a champion footballer of the same name. Um, and he he gets sentenced to community service, um, and as part of that he has to coach the town's footy team, the Bears. So just totally away from from crime, um, but very funny. And um it was a great story outside of his primary genre, is what I'm trying to say. And yeah, um it just highlighted that he can do lots of other things.

Helen 8:30

Wow, okay. I wonder if that's on ABC IV. We might have to look that up, and if it is, we'll add it to the show notes, hey.

Leigh 8:37

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it still is, yeah. Yeah.

Helen 8:40

Excellent. All right. Well, I do apologize for the tough question, but you know, you gotta ask them. Um but I think this one's gonna be a bit easier. So can you share something that people might not know about Peter Temple's career?

Leigh 8:54

Obviously, he did come to fiction writing late, post-50, and we already talked about Time's Day being something you know completely out of left film compared to everything else. But I I'm um I find it remarkable how successful his books were from an awards point of view. Um, if we haven't sort of talked about that enough already, but um so even The Red Hand, um which was released posthumously, won the the Keating Award for the Crime Fest Awards. Um he won a Miles Franklin for Truth, um Australian Book Industry Awards, General Fiction Book of the Year for the Broken Shore, uh the Colin Roderick Award for The Broken Shore, um, which is from James Cook University in Queensland, the Duncan Laurie Dagger Award, which is the the UK's version of the sort of the Ned Kelly Awards, um, and then he was long listed for the Miles Franklin again um for The Broken Shore, which was actually before the truth, and then four-time winner of the Ned Kelly Awards for um Broken Shore, White Dog, Dead Point, and Shooting Star. And then to cap it off, his first book about death won the best first novels. Um that is just a remarkable strike rate as far as I'm um as far as I'm concerned, and I just think um yeah, it's and again he didn't start his fiction writing journey um until after fifty years um is remarkable.

Helen 10:35

Oh my goodness, I absolutely agree. That's um God just imagine what his pool room looked like with all those awards. That's crazy. I actually didn't realise that he published any short stories, so now I have to add the red hand to my reading pile.

Leigh 10:51

I keep it on my bedside table and I will periodically go back and reread some of his essays and um uh and stories. I was always a big Raymond Chandler fan, and I know there was an influence of Raymond Chandler's with Peter Temple as well, so I I I do find it interesting to go back and read some of his sort of anecdotes on on Chandler and and other things as well. So it's well worth a read.

Helen 11:17

Excellent. Uh now I want to talk about Jack Irish because his um Jack Irish series was where lots of readers, including me, first discovered him. Um and I just love how it was set in the back streets and back rooms of Melbourne, you know, as you mentioned, the sort of familiar places. Um the books follow Jack, so he's a former lawyer, turned debt collector, and part-time cabinet maker, I think. Um I love how the series blended crime and humour, footy culture, um, and then just this amazing cast of characters that feel like they've stepped right out of the Fitzroy pub. But um I'm really interested what stood out the most for you with Jack Irish?

Leigh 12:00

Uh as I said before, the sense of place is really important, and to me is um yeah, something that I really appreciate in in the writing. And it's not just that Melbourne is a backdrop, it's a character. You know, the pubs and that sort of the footy banter and that sort of shabby charm of inner city Fitzroy and Collingwood. Um it's all very lived in. And Jack himself is such a great creation, flawed, funny, weary, um, but fundamentally decent. Um supporting cast of characters, you know, the Fitzroy crew. I I actually really love the whole little sort of sub, it's not a sub-plot, but the um the whole cabinet making part that just is part of his character. Um uh they're all they are all unforgettable characters, and then as I said before, just great yarns twists and turns, and they're clever and they're and they're and they're sharp, and there's there's often underlying political elements as well, which which make for great stories, and and they always build that sense of tension as well.

Helen 13:24

Now I actually have to admit that I actually discovered Peter Temple through the Jack Irish TV movies, um, because I kind of have to admit that I was a bit more interested in watching Guy Pierce, who um I did have a bit of a crush on since his neighbour's days. So um I thought that yeah, Guy Pierce just brought a really um awesome charm to that role. You know, you talk about how he sort of came to life in the books, but I guess my first experience was through the telly movies and also, oh goodness, just those scenes like the pub scenes. Um I I yeah, having hung out in a few pubs, particularly around North Melbourne, you just can still find blokes like that in sort of half the pubs around town. And I think um the real pub that they used for on TV was the for the Prince of Prussia interiors, was actually the Napier Hotel in Fitzroy. Um, and it's actually a really trendy gastro pub now because I think when you look at the menu, you can get kangaroo steaks and bogen burgers, um, but it actually still has all the Fitzroy Football Club memorabilia everywhere. Um so I'm really curious, what did you actually think about the film and television adaptations?

Leigh 14:36

I do love them, and I know I I talked previously or in a previous episode about how I consider them to be my chicken noodle soup on days where I'm sick and bedridden, I will um find myself re-watching them, which I did uh all three recently. Guy Pierce is just perfect for that role. He just brings it to life so well. So he was just terrific, and he just captured that he captured Jack's mix of weariness and wit sort of perfectly um you know, three adaptations of three of the four Jack Irish Peter Temple books, so Bad Dead's Black Tide and Dead Points, um, and then the three TV seasons. Um they all just did this fantastic job of bringing Peter Temple's world to life. Seeing it on screen didn't change how I read the books, um, definitely deepened my appreciation for how vividly Peter Temple wrote about Melbourne and you know, talking before the sort of the Fitzroy Youth Club, as they call them, the the three old chaps at the bar at the at the pub were just um uh such wonderful additional characters. Um Aaron Pederson was fantastic, playing Cam and uh Martha Dusseldorp. And then obviously uh uh plenty of well-known other Australian uh actors throughout. Shane Jacobson was fantastic the whole way through. So many great characters and great actors sort of involved. So yeah, I um I'm a huge fan. Like I do really uh enjoy and appreciate um appreciate them.

Helen 16:18

I totally agree. And I think what I like that you talk about with the show is that it really highlighted how much of Temple's world that he created was built on voice, so it was kind of that rhythm that he had to his dialogue, that whole thing about you know how he spoke and how he described sort of the sort of that very Melbourne of it all. Um, I really loved how his sentences were so sharp and economical, but just so Australian. Um, I'm just interested to know, like, what did you really think made his use of language so distinctive?

Leigh 16:55

I think I agree with you there is this sharpness and this economical element to it. And we talked about Mark Brandy recently, and we both just read Eden and heard him speak at an event. Being able to be really economical and efficient with writing is a really great skill, and probably not one that's particularly easy to master either. So um I always think so. This is the first paragraph from Bad Debts, which obviously we've talked about is his first books. I found Edward Dollery, age 47, defrocked accountant, big spender, and dishonest person, living in a house rented in the name of Carol Pick. It was a new brick veneer suburb built on cow pasture east of the city, one of those strangely silent developments where the average age is twelve and you can feel the pressure of the mortgages on your skin. And that's the first paragraph of his first book. He just sets you up to take you on a great writing journey. And you don't even know what the book's about at this point, you know. I mean, aside from reading the blurb, but um just and I'm I'm I'm I'm always quite fascinated and as we have as we start talking to writers on this show, I will always be asking them about the first pages and first chapters because um there is they are so important because if if the first page doesn't get turned, it doesn't matter how good the second page is, and if the first chapter doesn't hook you at the end, it doesn't matter how good chapter two and beyond is because um uh you you need to be writers obviously need to be writing books that just encourage and um encourage people to keep turning the page.

Helen 18:40

So I love that you um gave us that little teaser about um the first the first um the first sentence of of the book because I think they just capture his dry humour and how precise his writing was. I think for everyone, just want to share that to coincide with this episode, you're gonna actually uh record a reading of the first the whole first chapter of Bad Debt, and everyone will be able to find it alongside this episode.

Leigh 19:10

His lines are just unforgettable. So um, in truth, for example, uh when Villani is asked how things are at home, he replies, Domestic bliss, if you like your bliss noisy, chaotic, and slightly homicidal. And then there's another bit where he that I'd um that I'd noted. Uh he's surveying yet another crime scene, and someone asks if he's seen worse, and he says, I've seen worse, I've also seen better. Neither made much difference when discussing uh a homicide. So um he just great writer. So since we're talking about the books that really showcase his voice, what about you? Do you have a favourite Peter Temple novel?

Helen 19:49

Um I've only read a couple, but I really enjoyed The Broken Shore. I think the way he writes about Australia, how he sort of tackles the racial tensions, that kind of underlying current of corruption, how there's that pull and push between development and the environment, uh, that felt so real and just really current for today. I actually really liked the main character, Joe Cashin. Um, I thought he was really compelling. Uh just the way Peter Temple was able to describe him, and you know, we really felt for him being such a kind of damaged but fundamentally decent bloke. Uh, you know, exactly what you talked about, that way he writes those really short, choppy sentences. Um, the fact that he had some very crude language, but it was so intrinsically Australian. Um, I did in this book really appreciate the glossary of Aussie Slang at the back of the book. Um taught me quite a few new words, um, which I won't repeat on this podcast because I think we've got a due rating, haven't we, Leigh?

Leigh 20:51

Yes.

Helen 20:53

Uh I don't know, um, I don't feel the same way about truth. I know that's the one that won the big awards, but I actually found it um harder to connect with the main character, Stephen Villany. Uh I just found all that McKizmo, I don't know, that just didn't really gel for me. I also struggled a little bit with the all the time jumps. Um, but yeah, so I really much preferred Broken Shore.

Leigh 21:18

Yeah, I really like that as well. And um, and obviously we were talking before about the ABC and the Jack Irish series. Um, if for people that haven't seen that film with Don Haney in it, that is an absolute ripper as well. So it's Don Haney, Claudia Karvan, Anthony Hayes, um Damon Herrimon. Um fantastic film, fantastic book. So um and that's yeah, and that's the beauty of Peter Temple's work, sort of the different books resonate with different readers, but they all speak to his incredible talent. Sadly, Peter Temple died on the 8th of March in 2018 in Ballarat, just two days before he would have to. His passing prompted an outpouring of tributes from writers, actors, publishers, publishers, and readers. Um, people spoke about his generosity, his sharp humour, and the enormous influence he had on the crime genre. His legacy remains incredibly strong.

Helen 22:19

Yeah, it certainly does. Now, if you like to explore that legacy for yourself, we've included links in the show notes to the books and the TV shows that we've talked about today. And of course, you'll all you'll find Leigh's reading of the first chapter of Bad Deaths, released alongside this episode. Now, just to give a little teaser for next time, we're going to be turning our attention to one of my absolute favourite Australian crime writers, the late Kerry Greenwood. Now, she sort of from Phrynne Fisher to Sci-Fi, young adult historical novels, and even cookbooks, she also left behind an extraordinary legacy. So, yeah, I've just encouraged everyone to join us for the next episode as we celebrate her remarkable body of work.

Leigh 23:12

Well, that's us for this time. We'll be putting the bookmark back in the book. Uh remember you can follow us on Instagram and Facebook, and we look forward to seeing you soon.